The Courage Effect

Andrea Anderson: Good Trouble and Girl Scouts

#81: Andrea Anderson, CEO of Girl Scouts of Western Washington, discusses the courage to stand where others won't, lead authentically, and embrace not fitting in. From sex education to running one of the country's most progressive Girl Scout councils, Andrea shares why being an outsider is her superpower.
Key Topics:
Standing in uncomfortable spaces and calling out injustice
Why "we've always done it this way" is never acceptable
Girl Scout cookie sales as the largest girl-led entrepreneurial program on the planet
Sex education, body autonomy, and the power of language
The beach epiphany: embracing not fitting into systems not designed for you
Memorable Quotes:
"What better time to raise dragon slayers than in the time of dragons."
"I stopped apologizing for my very existence years ago."
"The scam is structural and they didn't make it with me in mind."
"Bravery sometimes is just getting up and out of bed."
Key Takeaways:
Courage isn't always dramatic — sometimes it's just showing up authentically
Refuse to fit into systems not designed for you
Create space for people to bring their whole selves to work
Stop telling people to "leave their shit at the door"
Resources Mentioned:
Andrea's TEDx Talk on respectful body language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xJgEetiGh4
Girl Scouts of Western Washington: https://www.girlscoutsww.org/en/join.html?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19271251657&gbraid=0AAAAAD1syUTY6XykWzGD5Zt7QY--jM6he&gclid=CjwKCAjwx-zHBhBhEiwA7Kjq6-vcRm-5gTCflmon6BcadKbw-Zu2qQTzHbO79fcoRSymsZsGAHwMPxoCUEEQAvD_BwE
Connect with Andrea via LinkedIn at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrea-anderson-61215232/
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
Support the Show:
If this episode resonated with you:
Leave a review on your podcast platform
Share this episode with someone who would benefit from Andrea’s story

Massimo Backus: Why Being Kind to Yourself Makes You a Better Leader

#80: Massimo Backus, author of "Human First, Leader Second," shares his transformative journey from high-achieving "sage on the stage" to authentic leader through the power of self-compassion.
Key Moments:
The Wake-Up Call - Massimo was running global leadership development when devastating 360 feedback revealed he was defensive, didn't create psychological safety, and was even described as a bully - the opposite of his intentions.
The Epiphany - After surrendering to the Hoffman Process, Massimo experienced his first moment of unconditional self-love in the woods - realizing he'd spent his life hiding doubts and imposter syndrome behind a "leadership costume."
The Power of the Pause - Why rushing from one role to the next keeps us stuck - and how the "neutral zone" allows for healing and repatterning.
Powerful Quotes:
"We wake up most days trying to be someone we already are."
"Courage is the small things: taking good care of yourself, setting boundaries, asking for help."
"I had to fully surrender - give up all the coping mechanisms and parts of my identity that on paper worked."
Key Takeaways:
Self-compassion isn't soft - it takes courage to confront yourself authentically
Internal validation is sustainable; external validation keeps you off-balance
Emotions are data points, not definitions
Transition periods are opportunities, not just gaps to fill quickly
Resources:
Human First, Leader Second by Massimo Bacchus
Brené Brown's Atlas of the Heart
Dr. Kristin Neff's self-compassion research
The Hoffman Process
Connect with Massimo:
Website: mass@massimobackus.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/massimo-backus/
Instagram: @massismoleadership  
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
Support the Show:
If this episode resonated with you:
Leave a 5-star review on your podcast platform
Share this episode with someone who would benefit from Massimo’s story

Susan Lieu: Breaking the Silence on Family Secrets and Finding Your Voice

#79: When Susan Lieu's mother died from a botched cosmetic surgery at age 11, her Vietnamese immigrant family did what they knew how to do: they never spoke about it again. For three decades, the silence persisted. But when Susan faced the question "How do I become a mother if I never knew my own?" everything changed.
 
In this deeply moving conversation, Susan Lieu – a Vietnamese American author, playwright, and performer – shares her extraordinary journey from Microsoft cybersecurity professional to acclaimed solo performer and author. With zero theater training, she wrote and starred in a 65-minute show playing 15 family members, performed 60 times to 7,000 people while pregnant, and wrote the memoir "The Manicurist's Daughter" — an Apple Book Pick and NPR Best Book of 2024.
 
Susan's story is about the courage to break generational silence, the power of becoming your family's archive keeper, and discovering that sometimes the stories we're forbidden to tell are exactly the ones the world needs to hear.
 
Key Topics Discussed:
Family Secrets & Silence
How trauma and cultural differences create walls of silence
The cost of keeping family secrets vs. the courage to tell the truth
 
Intergenerational Trauma & Healing
Understanding her parents' escape from Vietnam as boat people
Learning to forgive a father shaped by war and loss
 
Body Image
Unpacking the message "if you get fat, no one will love you"
Reframing relationship with her body: "My body is my mother's last gift to me"
 
Truth & Memory
How different family members hold different versions of the same story
The power of archiving family history for future generations
 
Notable Quotes:
"For me to go on a quest to avenge my mother's death, to track down the killer, to bring justice to our family, but really to know her was this confrontation of being courageous in my own family."
 
"My body is my mother's last gift to me. When I say I hate my body, that means you're saying you hate where you come from."
 
"Sometimes the stories we're not allowed to tell are exactly the ones the world needs to hear."
 
"In activating this courage, we will learn something new. It'll give us new information to keep pivoting, to keep inching toward what we think will give us our self-actualization."
 
Connect with Susan:
Website: https://www.susanlieu.me/
Instagram: @SusanLieu
Substack: "Live Like You're Mortal" https://susanlieu.substack.com/
Podcast: "Model Minority Moms" https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/model-minority-moms/id1565085683
Book: "The Manicurist's Daughter" (available in print and audiobook) https://www.amazon.com/Manicurists-Daughter-Memoir-Susan-Lieu/dp/1250835046
TEDx Talk: "How to Make Peace with Your Belly Fat" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al0Jw_9b06Y
 
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
 
Support the Show:
If this episode resonated with you:
Leave a 5-star review on your podcast platform
Share this episode with someone who needs to hear Susan's story
Purchase "The Manicurist's Daughter" and leave a review
Follow Susan on social media and support her work

Lisa Fain: Building Developmental Networks & The Courage to Ask for Help

#78: In this conversation, Lisa Fain discusses the concept of developmental networks and the role of courage in creating intentional learning relationships. She emphasizes the importance of community, connection, and reciprocity in mentoring relationships, and how these elements contribute to personal and professional growth. Lisa also shares insights on navigating career transitions, the significance of identity, and the power of intentional connections in fostering a supportive environment for learning and development.
 
Key Topics:
Developmental networks - intentional learning relationships for growth
The courage to ask - being the first mover and requesting what you need
Effective mentoring elements - learning, reciprocity, and co-creation
Common failures - "pair and pray" programs without structure
Career transitions - leveraging networks during job searches
Identity's role - how our lens shapes mentoring experiences
 
Standout Quotes:
"Impact isn't built alone."
"Everything is figureoutable, but everything is not figureoutable on your own."
"If you're gonna share your wisdom, make sure it ends with a question mark and not with a period."
 
Chapters:
00:00 Exploring Developmental Networks and Courage
10:06 The Importance of Community and Connection
19:59 Understanding Mentoring Relationships
30:12 Navigating Career Transitions and Identity
39:52 The Power of Intentional Connections
 
Key Takeaways:
Structure matters - Successful mentoring requires intentional frameworks
Mentees drive learning - Come prepared with specific goals
Reciprocity is real - Everyone has something valuable to offer
Think beyond hierarchy - Peer and reverse mentoring work too
Avoid "brain picking" - Be specific about what you want to learn
 
Get in touch with Lisa Fain:
Website: http://www.centerformentoring.com
TEDx Talk: "The Power of Intentional Connections in Your Career": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ4JEvEsO2c
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisazfain
 
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 

George Brewster: The Courage to Uproot

#77: George shares how a chance coffee shop conversation led to uprooting his family (three kids, ages 11-13) and moving to a small Spanish village for what became a two-year adventure. From navigating bureaucracy and language barriers to watching his children courageously walk into Spanish schools, this episode explores what it takes to "run toward the roar" of our biggest fears.
Key Highlights:
The Catalyst: A networking conversation that became life-changing advice
Facing Fears: Professional uncertainty, family impact, and financial risk
Reality Check: The challenging first months and questioning their decision
Kid Courage: How children adapt and teach resilience to their parents
Unexpected Benefits: How the experience prepared them for COVID and virtual work
Memorable Quotes:
"What right do I have to be coaching these people if I'm constantly comfortable and haven't done much of a big change in my life?"
"Courage is not the absence of fear, it's having fear there but working your way through it."
"Your kids can do it. You can do it. And the adventure is there waiting for you."
Perfect For:
Anyone considering a major life change
Parents wondering how families navigate uncertainty
People looking for courage to face their fears
Those interested in international living experiences
Key Takeaway:
Sometimes the most transformative experiences come from running toward what scares us most - and our children might just be our best teachers in courage.
Find more information about George Brewster at:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgebrewster/
Gimbal Systems website: https://gimbalsystems.com/
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about

Patricia Bravo: Empathy in Leadership

#76: Join host Suzanne Weller and Patricia Bravo (Founder of Bravo for You) as they explore why empathy requires courage in today's workplaces and how leaders can use empathy strategically without sacrificing results.
Key Topics:
Empathy isn't a soft skill — it's a strategic leadership advantage that requires courage to implement effectively.
Patricia defines empathy as "accurately identifying cues and clues to activate understanding"
Research: 10% increase in empathetic leadership = $1,000/employee/year productivity boost
The pitfall of confusing over-empathizing with over-responding
Set boundaries while maintaining understanding
Focus on genuine connection, not checking boxes
Key Takeaways:
Empathy saves time rather than draining time for busy leaders
Understanding ≠ agreement - it's about better decision-making data
Courage is required to prioritize empathy in traditional business cultures
Small investments yield big returns - 10 minutes can transform relationships
Results follow relationships - empathy drives productivity, loyalty, and discretionary effort
Notable Quote: "It's not about slowing down business. It's actually about creating relationship shortcuts, which saves time."
Find more information about Patricia Bravo at:
Linktree - https://linktr.ee/theempatheticleader
Substack - https://substack.com/@theempatheticleader
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about

Michele Y. Smith: Democratizing Arts and Culture

#75: In this conversation, Suzanne Weller interviews Michele Y. Smith, CEO of the Museum of Pop Culture (MoPOP), discussing her journey of courage and leadership in the nonprofit sector. They explore themes of democratizing pop culture, the importance of community engagement, and the challenges faced during the pandemic. Michele shares her personal story, the influence of her mother, and her innovative approaches to revitalizing institutions. The discussion emphasizes the significance of philanthropy and representation in leadership roles, highlighting how small acts can lead to significant change.
 
Key Topics:
Michele shares she is a “product of philanthropy” having received a Milton Hershey School scholarship as a girl
Crisis leadership: 9/11 at United Airlines, Keeping 1,000 animals alive during pandemic shutdown at Woodland Park Zoo
Her "positive disruptors" leadership philosophy
Transforming MoPOP through local partnerships and community engagement
Making philanthropy accessible (starting with $5 donations)
Notable Quote: "I consider my entire organization positive disruptors... What is the opportunity?"
 
Key Takeaways:
Leadership:
View problems as opportunities, not failures
Balance accountability with empathy for your team
Model the behavior you want to see during crisis
 
Community Building:
Partner locally to strengthen the entire ecosystem
Start small - every contribution matters ($1, $5, membership)
Make people feel part of something bigger than themselves
 
Career Growth:
Say yes to unexpected opportunities (San Francisco relocation)
Build resilience through compassion during challenging times
Use each experience to develop skills for future roles
 
Essential viewing: Michele’s rap at The Peer 150 event in October 2024.
 
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 

Ashley Gilbertson: Confronting Conflict and Change Through the Lens of Courage

#74: Join host Suzanne Weller for an unflinching conversation with award-winning photojournalist and writer Ashley Gilbertson, who has spent over two decades documenting conflict, migration, and pivotal moments that shape our world. From the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan to the halls of the US Capitol on January 6th, Ashley brings us face-to-face with uncomfortable truths through his lens.
In this deeply personal conversation, Ashley shares the magic that drew him to photography at 13, the weight of witnessing history, and why he believes documenting difficult stories is more crucial than ever. We explore his groundbreaking work,  his evolution as a storyteller, and what it means to find courage in the darkest places.
Content Warning: This episode discusses war, conflict, domestic terrorism, and loss. Listener discretion is advised.
Key Topics Discussed:
Finding Your Voice Early:
Discovering photography through skateboarding at age 13
How passion becomes purpose
War Correspondence and Personal Cost
The moment a Marine's death became personal responsibility
Learning to carry trauma rather than overcome it
January 6th: An Insider's Perspective
Being among the first 20 people inside the Capitol
Witnessing Eugene Goodman's heroic stand
Evolving Storytelling
Finding new angles on familiar stories
The challenge of visual fatigue in modern media
Migration and Global Issues
Covering refugee crises across Europe and the US
The complexity of immigration stories
Notable Quotes:
"There's nothing in the world that beats that magic... trying to find that moment, what Cartier Bresson would have described as the decisive moment."
"You can't cover these places and come home the same. All of this comes with responsibility. There's no way of getting over any of this crap - it's learning how to carry it."
"The harder the work is, the better the work will be. When you get really deep into it and you want to stop, that is exactly the moment that you have to try twice as hard."
"What I saw was an insurrection. And what happened there was an insurrection. There is no question about that... These pictures will stand."
"One man holds them up for long enough to save the Vice President of America, Nancy Pelosi, and senators... That type of courage, that type of heroism, that's what I live for."
About Ashley Gilbertson
Ashley Gilbertson is an Australian photographer and writer based in New York City. Recognized for his critical eye and unique approach to social issues, Ashley Gilbertson is an Australian photographer and writer living in New York City recognized for his critical eye and unique approach to conflict, global migration, climate, social and health issues. 
See more of Ashley Gilbertson's work at https://theviifoundation.org/profile/gilbertson-ashley/ and follow him on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashgilbertson/?hl=en
Ashley’s work for of January 6th at the United States Capitol for The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html
Ashley’s books Whisky Tango Foxtrot and Bedrooms of the Fallen
Photograph
Learn more about VII Foundation at: https://theviifoundation.org/
Connect with The Courage Effect
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Special thanks to Ashley Gilbertson for his courage, honesty, and friendship.

Sharon Podobnik: Courage as a Skill and Learning to be Brave

#73: In this conversation, Sharon Podobnik (leadership coach, facilitator, and founder of The Center for Conscious Leadership) and Suzanne Weller explore the multifaceted nature of courage, emphasizing its inner and outer dimensions. They discuss personal experiences of courage, the evolution of what courage means over time, and the importance of somatic practices in understanding our bodies' responses to fear and discomfort. The dialogue also touches on the significance of boundaries and the courage required to say no, highlighting that courage is a skill that can be developed rather than an innate trait. In this conversation, Sharon Podobnik and Suzanne Weller explore the importance of setting boundaries, the individualization of oppression, and the need for collective responsibility in creating social change. They discuss the concept of courage as a skill that can be developed, the significance of acceptance in the face of challenges, and the role of community in fostering empowerment. The dialogue emphasizes the necessity of recognizing our agency and the power of saying no, while also advocating for a shift in societal expectations and norms.
Takeaways:
Courage is a value that becomes a way of being.
Courage often involves discomfort meeting purpose.
Life experiences shape our understanding of courage.
Courage is not about fearlessness but about dancing with fear.
Somatic practices help us understand our body's responses.
Recognizing when to say no is crucial for self-care.
Teaching young girls to say no can change the world.
Organizations often take advantage of our willingness to say yes.
Self-help often places undue responsibility on individuals.
Collective action can alleviate individual burdens.
Community and connection are essential for empowerment.
We all have a role in creating social change.
Get more information about Suzanne and Weller Collaboration at wellercollaboration.com
Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about

Pelumi Nubi: The Power of Solo Travel

#72: In this engaging conversation, Pelumi Nubi shares her inspiring journey as a trailblazing travel content creator, adventurer, and the first black woman to drive solo from London to Lagos. She discusses the courage it takes to travel alone (especially as a woman!) and the importance of community support. Pelumi also opens up about her experience with dyslexia and how it shaped her perspective. Through her travel series One Week In, she aims to change the narrative around African destinations, showcasing their beauty and culture. The conversation emphasizes the transformative power of travel, the joy it brings, and the importance of taking courageous steps in life.
 
Takeaways:
Traveling alone as a woman requires courage and determination.
Community support is vital during challenging journeys.
Dyslexia can be a barrier, but it can also be a source of strength.
Travel fosters personal growth and self-awareness.
Cultural respect is essential when traveling to all destinations.
Joy is a choice that can be cultivated through travel.
 
Referenced in this show:
Pelumi’s series 28 Days of Brave: https://www.tiktok.com/@pelumi.nubi/video/7467990401132006689
Her TedX Talk: How to embrace imperfect action:  ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qplHjdyoXtQ
 
Find Pelumi online at:
WWW.PELUMINUBI.COM
https://www.instagram.com/pelumi.nubi/?hl=en
 
Get more information about Suzanne and Weller Collaboration at wellercollaboration.com
Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about