The Courage Effect

Listener Favorite with Michael Hudson: The Courage to Be an Outsider

Michael Hudson moved to rural Vietnam at 22 and stayed through the hard parts. Now CEO of the Hudson Institute of Coaching, he shares what he learned about courage, identity, and the disruptions that force us to grow.
Key Themes:
Naive Courage vs. Cultivated CourageNaive courage gets you on the plane. Cultivated courage keeps you there at the six-month mark when you want to quit. The real transformation happens when you choose to stay and figure it out.
The Flashcard TrapMichael made 200 Vietnamese flashcards but wasn't learning. He was protecting himself from embarrassment. Real integration required letting go of control. Where are you creating the illusion of progress to avoid actual risk?
Disruption Forces HonestyWe think we know why we're succeeding when times are good. External disruptions reveal what actually matters. COVID forced Michael's organization from in-person to virtual. They didn't want to change — but learned things they're still using.
Identity as ObstacleChange requires letting go of parts of yourself that no longer serve you. There's loss in that. Pain in that. We don't sign up for it easily. But becoming something different means releasing who you used to be.
Takeaways:
Break habituation deliberately. Take different routes. Create small disruptions before life forces big ones.
Be honest about what's moving the needle vs. what's just noise
Give yourself permission to make it up as you go
Stay long enough to know what you're really choosing
About Michael: CEO of the Hudson Institute of Coaching, spent 10 years in Southeast Asia and East Africa, coaches startup founders and social entrepreneurs.
Connect with Michael: 
LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-hudson-8527728/
Hudson Institute of Coaching website: https://hudsoninstitute.com/
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
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Listener Favorite: Courageous Communication with Julie Pham

What happens when we avoid the hard conversations? Dr. Julie Pham, Founder/CEO of Curiosity Based and author of "Seven Forms of Respect," shares the messy truth about when she got it wrong—and what changed when she finally chose directness over avoidance.
Julie opens up about quitting a job through manufactured martyrdom rather than honesty, workplace gossip that spectacularly backfired, and the uncomfortable question that kept her up at night. When her boss told her to "let it go," she trusted her gut instead—and ended up modeling the behavior her entire team needed.
Drawing on her parents' journey fleeing Vietnam by boat, Julie reminds us that courage is relative. And sometimes the bravest thing we can do is slow down, stop judging ourselves and others, and have the direct conversation—even when it takes months to get there.
Key Insights:
Courage doesn't have to be immediate. Julie took months to process before having a difficult conversation. "Sometimes our expectations of having to respond right away actually gets us to maybe respond in a way that is just more reactive than thoughtful."
You can't outsource your courage. When Julie complained about her boss to a peer, that peer spread her words around the organization. "I can't expect other people to fight my battles for me. I can't expect other people to save me."
Trust your gut over bad advice. Against her boss's advice to ignore an uncomfortable situation, Julie had direct conversations and apologized. Her boss later told her: "You actually modeled the behavior that we should have here."
Building relationships requires risk. "We don't know how they're going to take it. All I can do is stay true to myself and maybe that'll work and we'll have a deeper relationship and for other people it's gonna isolate us even more."
Connect with Julie: 
LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliepham2/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/juliephamphd
Website: https://curiositybased.cominstagram 
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
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Stay courageous.

2025 Season Reflections: Put Your Ass Where Your Heart Wants to Be

#83: The Courage Effect: 2025 Season Finale
Suzanne reflects on this season's powerful conversations and asks: What are you waiting for permission to do?
Season Themes:
Speaking the UnspeakableFrom menopause (Jill Angelo) to family secrets (Susan Liu) to standing in gaps others won't (Andrea Anderson) — courage means saying what needs to be said.
The Courage to Bear WitnessAshley Gilbertson documented Officer Eugene Goodman at the Capitol on January 6th, reminding us we can't look away from hard truths.
Self-Compassion as StrategyMassimo Backus: Being kind to yourself isn't soft — it's strategic. Stop wearing leadership costumes and show up authentically.
Permission Over PerfectionWe're better at giving others permission than ourselves. What are you tolerating that you no longer want to?
Standout Quotes:
Andrea Anderson: "I've always been comfortable standing in the gap that others don't want to stand in."
Pelumi Nubi: "Is this fear mine, was it given to me, or do I need to give it back?"
Susan Liu: "Sometimes the stories we're not allowed to tell are exactly the ones that the world needs to hear."
Three Questions:
What am I waiting for permission to do?
Who am I waiting to tell me it's okay?
What am I tolerating that I no longer want to?
The Call:
Stop apologizing. Stand in the gap. Bear witness. Take risks. Give yourself permission to be imperfect, human, and fully you.
Let's stop discharging pain through blame and create real change — by speaking up, telling stories, and showing what's in the world.
And thank you Stephen Pressfield for the inspiration: Put Your Ass Where Your Heart Wants To Be
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
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Stay courageous.

When Life Throws You a Tree: A Mini Episode on Loss, Safety, and What Really Matters

#82: In this raw and personal mini episode, Suzanne opens up about a month of grief and disruption — losing her aunt to aggressive cancer and having a massive tree crash through her dining room skylight on her wedding anniversary.
She reflects on what it means to feel safe and secure when life reminds us how fragile everything is. This episode is an invitation to examine our own lives: What are we taking for granted? Who do we need to call? What truly matters?
She invites us to consider:
What are you taking for granted right now?
What gives you real security beyond physical structures?
Who needs to hear from you?
What can you let go of as we head toward year-end?
Where do you need to be more present?
A Note from Suzanne: 
This episode is raw and unpolished — and that's intentional. Sometimes courage is just about showing up, being honest, and saying "this is where I am." Thank you for your patience and grace.
The final episode of this season drops in two weeks.
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
Support the Show:
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Andrea Anderson: Good Trouble and Girl Scouts

#81: Andrea Anderson, CEO of Girl Scouts of Western Washington, discusses the courage to stand where others won't, lead authentically, and embrace not fitting in. From sex education to running one of the country's most progressive Girl Scout councils, Andrea shares why being an outsider is her superpower.
Key Topics:
Standing in uncomfortable spaces and calling out injustice
Why "we've always done it this way" is never acceptable
Girl Scout cookie sales as the largest girl-led entrepreneurial program on the planet
Sex education, body autonomy, and the power of language
The beach epiphany: embracing not fitting into systems not designed for you
Memorable Quotes:
"What better time to raise dragon slayers than in the time of dragons."
"I stopped apologizing for my very existence years ago."
"The scam is structural and they didn't make it with me in mind."
"Bravery sometimes is just getting up and out of bed."
Key Takeaways:
Courage isn't always dramatic — sometimes it's just showing up authentically
Refuse to fit into systems not designed for you
Create space for people to bring their whole selves to work
Stop telling people to "leave their shit at the door"
Resources Mentioned:
Andrea's TEDx Talk on respectful body language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xJgEetiGh4
Girl Scouts of Western Washington: https://www.girlscoutsww.org/en/join.html?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19271251657&gbraid=0AAAAAD1syUTY6XykWzGD5Zt7QY--jM6he&gclid=CjwKCAjwx-zHBhBhEiwA7Kjq6-vcRm-5gTCflmon6BcadKbw-Zu2qQTzHbO79fcoRSymsZsGAHwMPxoCUEEQAvD_BwE
Connect with Andrea via LinkedIn at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrea-anderson-61215232/
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
Support the Show:
If this episode resonated with you:
Leave a review on your podcast platform
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Massimo Backus: Why Being Kind to Yourself Makes You a Better Leader

#80: Massimo Backus, author of "Human First, Leader Second," shares his transformative journey from high-achieving "sage on the stage" to authentic leader through the power of self-compassion.
Key Moments:
The Wake-Up Call - Massimo was running global leadership development when devastating 360 feedback revealed he was defensive, didn't create psychological safety, and was even described as a bully - the opposite of his intentions.
The Epiphany - After surrendering to the Hoffman Process, Massimo experienced his first moment of unconditional self-love in the woods - realizing he'd spent his life hiding doubts and imposter syndrome behind a "leadership costume."
The Power of the Pause - Why rushing from one role to the next keeps us stuck - and how the "neutral zone" allows for healing and repatterning.
Powerful Quotes:
"We wake up most days trying to be someone we already are."
"Courage is the small things: taking good care of yourself, setting boundaries, asking for help."
"I had to fully surrender - give up all the coping mechanisms and parts of my identity that on paper worked."
Key Takeaways:
Self-compassion isn't soft - it takes courage to confront yourself authentically
Internal validation is sustainable; external validation keeps you off-balance
Emotions are data points, not definitions
Transition periods are opportunities, not just gaps to fill quickly
Resources:
Human First, Leader Second by Massimo Bacchus
Brené Brown's Atlas of the Heart
Dr. Kristin Neff's self-compassion research
The Hoffman Process
Connect with Massimo:
Website: mass@massimobackus.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/massimo-backus/
Instagram: @massismoleadership  
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
Support the Show:
If this episode resonated with you:
Leave a 5-star review on your podcast platform
Share this episode with someone who would benefit from Massimo’s story

Susan Lieu: Breaking the Silence on Family Secrets and Finding Your Voice

#79: When Susan Lieu's mother died from a botched cosmetic surgery at age 11, her Vietnamese immigrant family did what they knew how to do: they never spoke about it again. For three decades, the silence persisted. But when Susan faced the question "How do I become a mother if I never knew my own?" everything changed.
 
In this deeply moving conversation, Susan Lieu – a Vietnamese American author, playwright, and performer – shares her extraordinary journey from Microsoft cybersecurity professional to acclaimed solo performer and author. With zero theater training, she wrote and starred in a 65-minute show playing 15 family members, performed 60 times to 7,000 people while pregnant, and wrote the memoir "The Manicurist's Daughter" — an Apple Book Pick and NPR Best Book of 2024.
 
Susan's story is about the courage to break generational silence, the power of becoming your family's archive keeper, and discovering that sometimes the stories we're forbidden to tell are exactly the ones the world needs to hear.
 
Key Topics Discussed:
Family Secrets & Silence
How trauma and cultural differences create walls of silence
The cost of keeping family secrets vs. the courage to tell the truth
 
Intergenerational Trauma & Healing
Understanding her parents' escape from Vietnam as boat people
Learning to forgive a father shaped by war and loss
 
Body Image
Unpacking the message "if you get fat, no one will love you"
Reframing relationship with her body: "My body is my mother's last gift to me"
 
Truth & Memory
How different family members hold different versions of the same story
The power of archiving family history for future generations
 
Notable Quotes:
"For me to go on a quest to avenge my mother's death, to track down the killer, to bring justice to our family, but really to know her was this confrontation of being courageous in my own family."
 
"My body is my mother's last gift to me. When I say I hate my body, that means you're saying you hate where you come from."
 
"Sometimes the stories we're not allowed to tell are exactly the ones the world needs to hear."
 
"In activating this courage, we will learn something new. It'll give us new information to keep pivoting, to keep inching toward what we think will give us our self-actualization."
 
Connect with Susan:
Website: https://www.susanlieu.me/
Instagram: @SusanLieu
Substack: "Live Like You're Mortal" https://susanlieu.substack.com/
Podcast: "Model Minority Moms" https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/model-minority-moms/id1565085683
Book: "The Manicurist's Daughter" (available in print and audiobook) https://www.amazon.com/Manicurists-Daughter-Memoir-Susan-Lieu/dp/1250835046
TEDx Talk: "How to Make Peace with Your Belly Fat" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al0Jw_9b06Y
 
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 
 
Support the Show:
If this episode resonated with you:
Leave a 5-star review on your podcast platform
Share this episode with someone who needs to hear Susan's story
Purchase "The Manicurist's Daughter" and leave a review
Follow Susan on social media and support her work

Lisa Fain: Building Developmental Networks & The Courage to Ask for Help

#78: In this conversation, Lisa Fain discusses the concept of developmental networks and the role of courage in creating intentional learning relationships. She emphasizes the importance of community, connection, and reciprocity in mentoring relationships, and how these elements contribute to personal and professional growth. Lisa also shares insights on navigating career transitions, the significance of identity, and the power of intentional connections in fostering a supportive environment for learning and development.
 
Key Topics:
Developmental networks - intentional learning relationships for growth
The courage to ask - being the first mover and requesting what you need
Effective mentoring elements - learning, reciprocity, and co-creation
Common failures - "pair and pray" programs without structure
Career transitions - leveraging networks during job searches
Identity's role - how our lens shapes mentoring experiences
 
Standout Quotes:
"Impact isn't built alone."
"Everything is figureoutable, but everything is not figureoutable on your own."
"If you're gonna share your wisdom, make sure it ends with a question mark and not with a period."
 
Chapters:
00:00 Exploring Developmental Networks and Courage
10:06 The Importance of Community and Connection
19:59 Understanding Mentoring Relationships
30:12 Navigating Career Transitions and Identity
39:52 The Power of Intentional Connections
 
Key Takeaways:
Structure matters - Successful mentoring requires intentional frameworks
Mentees drive learning - Come prepared with specific goals
Reciprocity is real - Everyone has something valuable to offer
Think beyond hierarchy - Peer and reverse mentoring work too
Avoid "brain picking" - Be specific about what you want to learn
 
Get in touch with Lisa Fain:
Website: http://www.centerformentoring.com
TEDx Talk: "The Power of Intentional Connections in Your Career": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ4JEvEsO2c
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisazfain
 
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about 

George Brewster: The Courage to Uproot

#77: George shares how a chance coffee shop conversation led to uprooting his family (three kids, ages 11-13) and moving to a small Spanish village for what became a two-year adventure. From navigating bureaucracy and language barriers to watching his children courageously walk into Spanish schools, this episode explores what it takes to "run toward the roar" of our biggest fears.
Key Highlights:
The Catalyst: A networking conversation that became life-changing advice
Facing Fears: Professional uncertainty, family impact, and financial risk
Reality Check: The challenging first months and questioning their decision
Kid Courage: How children adapt and teach resilience to their parents
Unexpected Benefits: How the experience prepared them for COVID and virtual work
Memorable Quotes:
"What right do I have to be coaching these people if I'm constantly comfortable and haven't done much of a big change in my life?"
"Courage is not the absence of fear, it's having fear there but working your way through it."
"Your kids can do it. You can do it. And the adventure is there waiting for you."
Perfect For:
Anyone considering a major life change
Parents wondering how families navigate uncertainty
People looking for courage to face their fears
Those interested in international living experiences
Key Takeaway:
Sometimes the most transformative experiences come from running toward what scares us most - and our children might just be our best teachers in courage.
Find more information about George Brewster at:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgebrewster/
Gimbal Systems website: https://gimbalsystems.com/
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about

Patricia Bravo: Empathy in Leadership

#76: Join host Suzanne Weller and Patricia Bravo (Founder of Bravo for You) as they explore why empathy requires courage in today's workplaces and how leaders can use empathy strategically without sacrificing results.
Key Topics:
Empathy isn't a soft skill — it's a strategic leadership advantage that requires courage to implement effectively.
Patricia defines empathy as "accurately identifying cues and clues to activate understanding"
Research: 10% increase in empathetic leadership = $1,000/employee/year productivity boost
The pitfall of confusing over-empathizing with over-responding
Set boundaries while maintaining understanding
Focus on genuine connection, not checking boxes
Key Takeaways:
Empathy saves time rather than draining time for busy leaders
Understanding ≠ agreement - it's about better decision-making data
Courage is required to prioritize empathy in traditional business cultures
Small investments yield big returns - 10 minutes can transform relationships
Results follow relationships - empathy drives productivity, loyalty, and discretionary effort
Notable Quote: "It's not about slowing down business. It's actually about creating relationship shortcuts, which saves time."
Find more information about Patricia Bravo at:
Linktree - https://linktr.ee/theempatheticleader
Substack - https://substack.com/@theempatheticleader
Connect with The Courage Effect:
Host: Suzanne Weller / Weller Collaboration
Website: https://wellercollaboration.com/thecourageeffect
Social Media: https://linktr.ee/suzanneweller
Substack: Sign up for Suzanne’s Reimagine Growth newsletter at https://suzanneweller.substack.com/about